Clementina Duron Oral History Interview

Amanda Belantara: Today I'm speaking with Clementina Durón, bilingual educator and former staff member at the Chicano Studies Library at the University of California, Berkeley. The interview was conducted for Bibliopolítica, a digital history of the Chicano Studies Library. The interview took place on campus in the Ethnic Studies Change Maker podcast studio on September 14th, 2023, engineered and recorded by Pablo Gonzalez. The interviewer is Amanda Belantara and I'm here today with Richard Chabrán and Lillian Castillo-Speed.

Amanda Belantara: Clementina, thank you so much for being with us here today. Could you start off just by telling us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, what you studied, and the kind of work that you do?

Clementina Durón: I grew up in Salinas, California and I went to Catholic school all my early days and through high school. Education was super important for my mom and felt that we'd get better quality at the Catholic schools. And then I went to Hartnell Community College for two years and I actually, just by luck, submitted an application for UC Berkeley and it was the only application I sent out and I was lucky to be accepted. This would be in fall of 1968 and I came as a transfer student and as a Chicana in Salinas, I didn't really get any help from anybody. I was kind of just individually, I just heard of a place, UC Berkeley, didn't really know much about it, but it was far enough away from Salinas and from my sister who was going to San Jose State. So anyway, I came in the fall of '68. And then, just very briefly, in the fall of '68, we had quite a bit of activity on campus the whole year and in particular in the fall it was the Eldridge Cleaver sit-in, which was part of Moses Hall at Moses Hall, and then second quarter was of course the third world student strike and the third quarter focused on the Vietnam War protests that took place here. During that time when I came up here in the fall, I was a work study student and I can't recall the work that I did in the fall, but after the strike and the creation of Ethnic Studies, I was lucky enough to be a work study student here in Chicano Studies or La Raza Studies or Latino Studies. There's a variety of names under which we were subsumed, but after I graduated in June of 1970 with the BA, with a minor in Chicano Studies, I think I was the first student on campus that got a degree in Chicano Studies, very proud of that. And then I went to Santa Barbara for a year and then I came back up to the Bay Area and I became a bilingual teacher. My first job was at an alternative school in Berkeley Unified School District at a school called Casa de La Raza. It was a K-12 school for Chicano kids. It was great and I still have former students that I talk to and we get together. So it's really, it was a wonderful experience. And then after that, I became part of the irregular Berkeley public schools and I became a coordinator of Chicano Studies because of the money at the time in the early 70s. I was the coordinator of that as well as there was women's studies, there was black studies, Asian American studies. So it kind of proceeded from UC Berkeley and we were able to continue trying to develop curriculum, etc. for the students in the school district. Then I moved on to Oakland and I became a principal in Oakland schools and I was there for 16 years. And then I took a diversion course and I went to Harvard for a year and got a master's in the Department of Education. And then I came back and I worked in San Francisco and finally retired in 2006. And then just recently I was on the school board here in Albany for four years and then I said, ya, Basta, because nothing changes in the bureaucracy. So it was a struggle and the struggle continues through today. So that's kind of where I am now today.

Amanda Belantara: Wow, congratulations. What a career in trajectory. That's amazing. So you mentioned that during your studies there were a lot of things going on campus. Were you involved directly yourself with the Third World Strike?

Clementina Durón: Yes, I was. I lived on Northside and that was the quiet side of campus as opposed to living on Southside and Telegraph, etc. But sometime in the fall I met one of the Chicano students, Ysidro Macías, and he was really one of our ringleaders. He invited me to attend a MASC meeting, the Mexican American Student Committee at that time. That's what it was called. And so I went to a meeting and we see that I presented the concept of us going out on strike. And Lena De Mines, a Native American student was also there because there was just a handful of Native American students on campus. And so she really, I don't know if she gravitated to us or we gravitated to her, but I know that the Chicanos on campus really felt protective of her and she was always involved with us and our meetings, etc. And so I think it was the second meeting we, Strike was called for and the other student groups as well, student groups of color were also doing the same thing going through that same process. And so we voted to go on strike and there was some dissent amongst some people, you know, Chicanos, Latinos, and but the majority of us wanted to go on strike. And so we did and that's how sort of our history started of trying to fight for a third world college is what we were really fighting for and trying to recognize ourselves on campus in terms of professors, trying to see ourselves in the curriculum, in the books, and the things that we were taught in the different departments. That was lacking, so lacking that we had to go on strike and we had to stand up and fight for that. So we ultimately were out the whole quarter of the strike. And I don't know if you want me to talk a little bit about the strike. Oh, and you had asked about my role in it. There was different activities going on during the strike. I was not one of the leaders. We had like representatives from the different groups, the four groups, and they would have like a committee, a leadership committee, and there's a specific name for this group. And I don't remember what the name was, but they would get together and discuss what was going on in our next strategies, etc. Meeting with Chancellor Haynes and deciding next steps, and then they would inform us. I don't want to use the word foot soldier because that's just not right anymore, but I was, Ysidro referred to a few of us women as the adelitas in his book. And, well, I don't quite like the adelitas, but historically it made sense, you know, in terms of we were there and we were a part of the struggle. And without us, without the adelitas, the Mexican Revolution might have been different, had different consequences. So anyway, we were there. And my role, what I would do sort of on a daily basis is go to, there was a, I think it was Chicano Art Center on Channing and Telegraph. It was a wooden building and Malaquías Montoya did some of his work there and produced some many mimeographs and artwork and posters for our strike. And I would go in the morning and pick up the materials, which were mimeograph copies that somebody had worked on earlier. And we would pass them out. So I would get a collection of them and other people would come and pick up copies. And then we would go primarily to the South side of campus, Telegraph and Bancroft, as students were coming on campus. So we were kind of ready by eight o'clock in the morning as students came on campus. We were trying to pass out our pamphlets to them or our pieces of paper that talked about the strike and what our demands were, trying to educate the students here. And this was from the jocks that we could tell, absolutely who they were to everybody that came on campus. That was like a daily ritual that we had. Other daily rituals that developed was a serpentine march that we had all across campus. So it would start in sprawl, basically in the sprawl area. And then we would go, we would walk up to say the Campanile, come down through another way by this, well this place. And then we'd go to North side, we'd go by the Chancellor's home, and we'd walk all around campus. And at some point, one of them, we had gone down by Dwinelle Hall and the blue meanies were out there. The cops and threw gas grenades at us, whatever. And so we took off. But our serpentine line through campus was a really sort of an important part of what we did daily because it allowed for us to have some unity and we'd add students as we go, that kind of thing. So it was an important aspect, I think, of what we did on a regular basis. And then in the evenings, I lived in the co-op on the North side of campus. So I felt I needed to inform people that live there. And so I would go to different of the co-ops during dinner time on the North side. And I would give a little speech. I mean, it was very short because students were eating dinner and they didn't really want to hear. But I presented anyway. Do you remember the name of the co-op that you lived in? I think I lived in Stebbins Hall, which is on Ridge Road. I lived in that student housing because it was cheaper rent. And then I had to work like 10 hours a week to help augment that. That was what all us co-op students did. But it was a nice side of campus too. It was fun.

Amanda Belantara: You mentioned that one of the things that you were all fighting for as the group was that you couldn't find yourself in the books. So how was it that you actually first learned about the library that was forming on campus, the Chicano Studies Library?

Clementina Durón: Well, after the strike was over and our basic demand was not met, which was the creation of a third world college, they ended up giving to us. The idea was that the university was supposed to work towards the development of a Third World College because some of our folks had gone to the Senate. It was the Academic Senate. One of our students, who I will not name, put glue on their seat. But anyway, things went on. And in the end, we had a great vote by the Academic Senate. And I know that's documented. It was like very few, five people that were against it. But the idea was that they supported the third world students and our strike. And the idea was the university was going to move towards a third world college. But that did not happen. They gave us the bones and a department with all of us under the same roof at the time at Dwinelle Hall. And then a year or two later, the African-American department, I mean, the African-American Studies was able to become a department independent of Ethnic Studies. So there were three major groups left. And that's what basically continues today. And in terms of then your question of how I was involved in the library of Chicano Studies, I was really lucky because I was on the ground in Chicano Studies when all this just barely started happening. So I was really lucky that I was in the right place and I was a work study student. And so I don't know if I asked or what, but I was there to work as soon as we were created, which was in spring of 1969. I was thinking initially we were called Chicano Studies. Richard shared with me a document that said we were La Raza Studies. And I do remember conversations, controversial conversations, little heated conversations about what should we be named? Should we, you know, because they were us that really had united in terms of the strike. And we felt very strong. The majority of us who were Chicanos, you know, that's really when we just started using that word. And that was so important to us. But there were other students as well who participated in the strike, a number of Latino students. Now we use inclusion, that word very easily. It wasn't part of our vocabulary then, but I certainly think the concept of us being together, of uniting first under the strike and then uniting under ethnic studies made us feel like a community. And then how does that translate in terms of your terms? If you're, if I'm not a Chicano, and how would that make me feel and stuff? So I always thought we were Chicano Studies. And of course, that's easy for me to refer to it like that. But it may have been La Raza Studies. The first chair of La Raza Studies, Chicano Studies/Latino Studies was Oswaldo Asturias. He was a professor on campus. He was a Latino. He was a Latin. And I think he certainly was a part then of that conversation as to what our official name should be. So he was the first chair. He was the one that had initiated the idea of a Chicano Studies library. And so my job as a student, a work-study student, was to start compiling a bibliography, a list that had materials and books that referred to the Latino experience, that materials and books that we would want in a library. I remember those little cards, the little index cards we used to use, four by six cards. And I would find materials. And how did I find the materials? Good question. In those days, computers were still not around very much. And so I think I went to the library a lot. I went here probably to Bancroft Library and to the major library, because then the main library had those in the room full, thousands and thousands and thousands. You pull out the catalog cards. Catalog cards. And so I believe I would spend time and for hours trying to find materials that way. I definitely recall also going to, in terms of trying to purchase materials, going to Holmes bookstore. It was a bookstore and rare books, something like that. I can't remember if it was on Broadway or one of the other streets in Oakland. It's closed. It's been closed for a number of years now. But it had some materials. I believe we bought from there Leonard Pitts' book, The Decline of the California. That I believe we got there. And I have to say that when our classes first started, there was so limited material that if you can imagine in those days, Carey McWilliams, North from Mexico was the book that we used in our history, in Chicano history class. So it just kind of lets you know how scant the materials were. I mean, there were materials, but we didn't know about them and what professor was using them. So that was really important to start a library and to start culling materials that we identified. But at the time, these were the kinds of materials that I was coming across. I think it would be fascinating to see if there are original bibliography cards or what. I have no clue what happened to them. But it certainly continued because I also continued as a work study student the following year, which was 69-70 school year. And I graduated with a BA in June of 70, but I worked in Chicano Studies through all those quarters. So it was really cool. So I believe in the fall of 69, it was Eduardo Chavez Hernandez who became the chair of the department. Either in the fall or the spring, he became the chair. So that was a name that I remember and a person's face that I remember as well. -

Amanda Belantara: And so you're starting working in the library and you're finding and beginning to acquire all these materials. How did you feel doing that work at the time? And what did that mean to you?

Clementina Durón: It was exciting. I mean, I remember being very enthusiastic about it. Oh my gosh, we're doing something for us and trying to find materials about us, for us. And so that, I really enjoyed my job. There was always people to help me in terms of making suggestions. Or when I went to the bookstore in Oakland, I remember Nora Hickman, who was a student at the time she went with me. I can't remember if she was a work study student, she might've been. And she and I went together to Oakland to purchase materials and look and see what they had.

Amanda Belantara: Did you ever think of this as like, we're just getting material for the students? Or did you think of this as building a library?

Clementina Durón: You know, it's been how many years? Do we want to say something like 53 years now? So I'd be lying if I said, oh yes, it was absolutely this futuristic viewpoint. I honestly can't remember. It was the ground level of this. And when we got these materials right there, where one of the places where I worked next to the main office, where Elodia Garcia was the secretary, who's another key person you could talk to because she might really remember the different faces, the different workers, the different people that went through the department who might be related to the library in some way and into the development of the library. So I can't honestly remember except to say that the materials we would get right there in the room that I worked in and Richard Rodriguez was in that room, we had our little shelves. That's where we started putting the books. I mean, just physically, that's where the materials would start. And as the professors came on board, they brought their own, they had their own knowledge of course already. And so they brought what they had. So that's what helped in developing the library. Besides a little work study student, there was other people absolutely contributing to that development. And I would say that the professors there at the time would be interesting to see what their bibliographies look like in terms of the materials that they presented to the classes. And hopefully, Lily, you'll be able to come across those. Or Richard, you already showed me something about the classes and their descriptions. So it was little by little and it was step by step and it was year by year. It took a while and depending on the commitment from the department itself that this is key, that this is important. But I somehow think it was always in the forefront of the chair's mind and the professor's minds that we have to get more materials. So I think, yeah, that was the beginning of the budding library.

Amanda Belantara: And so I want to come back a little bit more to the idea of the support from the program for the library in a minute. But you mentioned the shelves, that the books would go on. And earlier we spoke with Lucha Corpi who was telling us about finding the space in Dwinelle Hall. Do you remember when the library first found its space and could you describe it for us?

Clementina Durón: Yeah, Lucha was a poet. She is a poet, right? So that would be really key for her. I don't remember where the initial Chicano Studies library was physically housed. I mean, certainly Dwinelle Hall, but I don't know if it was down or, you know, in what room. I remember being housed as a work study student right next to the main office where Lucha and the chair had their offices and we were just right next door. The shelves were all, you know, sort of lined up around as an office might have those shelves. And that's where we would bring the materials and put them. And when they got transferred to an official room, I honestly can't remember. It may have taken a little while. It may have not been until I graduated or something, because I don't recall helping in moving the materials to a specific place for the library. And do you remember who else may have been working with you as a work study student at the time? Like I said, Nora, I remember her, the two of us would go, went to Oakland. And I also mentioned Richard Rodriguez, who was there and he was so bright, so articulate that I'm sure he would come over and say, Clementina, have you thought about this? Oh, no, I haven't thought whatever, and would encourage me. I know he would do that. You mentioned Richard Rodriguez. Is that the same Richard Rodriguez that wrote "Hunger of Memory" or a different one? Oh, no, a different one, a different one. Our Richard Rodriguez, ours here at Berkeley, he came from San Bernardino. He was one of the people sitting on the committee, the leadership committee, and he would attend the meetings with the chancellor and he would make funny comments. You know, you're just a dude and I'm going to talk to you straight. And then he would make little notes. So there may be notes as well about his perceptions of things. And he didn't mess around. So I wish he was still with us because he was a wonderful person.

Amanda Belantara: I understand that you were a good friend of Myrtha Chabrán. Do you have any memories of her working around the library? You know, I never met Myrtha, but from talking to a good friend of mine who came in the fall of '69, she wasn't here for the strike, but she was here at the fall of '69. Her name is Nina Herrera. She was a good friend of hers. And she said that she recalled and there's documentation of it, her recordings, that Myrtha really had provided monies. And I understand now is the student associated student body monies like $3,000. Or I know you'll get the record right straight. Not for me, but that was so totally devoted to the library and the development of the library. So as you had said, little by little, it became more and more important, you know, as different people came on board and knew of the importance of it. So like I said, I was just the very beginning of it. And like I said, I left and Myrtha didn't come till I think the next school year.

Amanda Belantara: I might have the timeline a little bit wrong here, but I'm just curious, did you ever work with Jose Antonio Arce at the library?

Clementina Durón: No. And I understood that he was also very fundamental to that focus. And I knew him. Unfortunately, he passed a few years ago, but he I knew him from Oakland, another wonderful person. And he definitely did work on the library. So but at the time I was already gone when he came on board.

Amanda Belantara: What impact do you think working at the library had on you, first of all, when you were a student? And secondly, going on through your life as like a person and a community member and as an educator?

Clementina Durón: You know, just in reflecting today on it, I don't know how much reflection I did at the time. But the the fact that we had a start from nothing, you know, that we had to, as a student, as professors, that we were the ones that had to develop from from the ground up, it certainly had an impact on me when when I worked with students in the schools in the sense of, and nobody else is going to do it for us. We really need to work on on our communities together and and very fierce like. So just as we struggled and fought and stood up for what we believed we needed as students in those times, I took that fervor, that passion, that voice that I found through ethnic studies. It it made my life different. And everybody I have talked to in even in the past couple of years in who were who were, they were members of school boards like myself. They all spoke about that, that Ethnic Studies changed their lives. It transformed their lives. And so even without my possibly recognizing it as a student at the time, when I went out to the community and I work with students and parents, that's really when I really felt all that I got from from Ethnic Studies from the strike initially because it bonded us. There was a solidarity that although, you know, I mean, conflicts is a natural for Latino community and it's natural when you're looking at across different groups, but the solidarity that was produced in the sense that the leadership was able to work together. It was it's not just a fantasy, it was real and and the solidarity was really an important and key issue for us. And the other term that we used at the time was self-determination. And I think that was key too in the terms of really understanding that a library is so essential that knowing who we are and and how do you acquire that information and the fact that once again we had to do it on our own, it transformed all of us who had those kinds of experiences and then those of us who were out in the, you know, a non-academic community such as Cal, but you know out in in Oakland or Richmond or San Francisco. I think we took those experiences with us and we all today can think back and and really give examples of that where, you know, it was just so important for all of us. It was transformational.

Amanda Belantara: And so all of that manifests in a library still today. So what do you think is most important for the library going into the future?

Clementina Durón: I'm old school kind of and and all these new technologies and things that all of you are doing is is it's just mind-boggling for me. I can barely handle my phone, you know. I marvel at what Lily's doing and and and all the materials she has and and what she's trying to do in the library and I feel so guilty that I think I need to come help her a little bit. I mean she has mentioned it in the past. Don't you want to look and you know go through some of these boxes and things like that and we did. We did when we came back for our 50th and it really jogged our memories. All the documentation that a library does is just absolutely key and I never appreciated documentation and history really before until the last few years and now I really recognize its value in terms of getting it right so that our communities, our students, others can can start seeing how everything came together and the connections and that we made with one another and with different different third world communities etc so that that bonding is really important and the library is one place that houses the heart of of who we are in terms of materials. It is so key but today you're doing it in so many ways like this project is an example right. A digital project that will document that'll keep forever you know so it's so many different ways that that I think the library is is so key and you know when I walk in and see students in the Ethnic Studies library it's just really exciting.

Amanda Belantara: And so you just mentioned you were here looking through boxes to celebrate your 50th what was what was the celebration?

Clementina Durón: In 2019 we got together for the 50th anniversary of the Third World student strike and that's when I met Vicki Wong who was who's one of the most articulate people and she makes all the connections about political history etc at the time and she's now one of our compañeras and we go to lunch together and several of us get together all the time and we do zooms with Ysidro and Francisco Hernandez and all these people I mean at least we know zoom how to do zoom a little bit. So the the 50th brought us back together it was really wonderful so much credit goes to Marcelo Gonzalez who really did so much work and Harvey Dong was another person that I initially met he was on strike 50 year 53 years ago whatever but he I just met him initially in 2019 so some of us just met sort of in 2019 then others of us came back after so many years.

Amanda Belantara: And at that 50th celebration of the strike you said did you go through boxes in the library?

Clementina Durón: Yes as part of you know trying to be more articulate in talking to each other and then jogging my memory two of us Estella Quintanilla who was a freshman at the time of the strike she and I are comadres and we came to the library and Lily and other librarians held a special night in the library when La Neda Means, I think Borjack was there and a few of us I don't remember if I talked but anyway we had a good time together and then they talked about the materials and I realized you know I really needed to sit down so Estella and I came and and went through materials to help jog our our memories and and oh yeah oh yeah remember that so so it so once again the importance of of having a place a home where these materials are there to help elders uh you know be able to put it all back together is is just phenomenal and and so important. And how does it feel entering that space now after all these years is something that you helped create? Oh it's it's fabulous it it like I had mentioned to you coming over I consider UC Berkeley my plate my backyard you know and I bring my grandkids here when they were younger and that kind of thing that this is ours just as it is anybody else's this this is our space to learn it's our space to have community it's our space to document our richness of who we are and so it's a wonderful place to be I mean I'm still mad at UC for the ways they don't support us both past and present you know the way finances are not there the true commitment and that's the bottom line to show commitment is when you give money for professors and you give money for materials and you give money for the support which according to what I learned after all these years and coming back and talking to different people over the years was not there so I get mad easily and often and and I still am mad about UC with UC Berkeley about these things.

Richard Chabrán: You made the comment about you know you had left and you worked in the community but I want to let you know that I was one of the cohorts after you and working in the library and we all knew about Clementina and we knew about her work working in an alternative school wow you know so you were like a role model for a lot of people wow that you were doing that kind of work.

Clementina Durón: Thank you Richard. Thank you very much. I had no clue thank you.

Amanda Belantara: Is there anything else that you would like to add about the library or your experience of it? Not really about my experiences, but but really what do you and Lily, Richard, who's ever now involved in this what do you see going forward and how can us elders from TWLF help to to support you and to make this continue?

Richard Chabrán: Can I start with that? I, recently when I was here talking to Lily one of the things that I told her is you know this place where you're at there's no reason why you shouldn't have this whole building and it should be redesigned and that would be a really commitment. I really like the fact that it's in the central part of campus but they need more space so for me that's like that would be a that would be one part of the commitment so you know that would be my hope to see that take over in the rest of that building.

Clementina Durón: Odele! I agree with you it's as you know space on campus is so very hard to it causes wars so yeah I agree with you and yeah support from the community a lot of things happen on campus that do you know in the past people thought that's never going to happen but when people do get together sometimes it's from the students themselves students get together and they decide where you need to have like a certain facet of teaching that should happen on this campus and have you know part of you know part of the department shoud be part of teaching this and then that actually happens and faculty are are hired that actually could happen because students got together and they just kept pushing and pushing so it could happen also with the campus the community you know I can see that happening too with people getting together it's got to be focused somebody's got to lead it with the library not now it's the you know it was the Chicano Studies Library now it's the Ethnic Studies Library so that's another facet of this is that you know it's part of a different environment but we need to do more in fundraising in general you know we just need we need to focus more on that and so community help would be really good with that yeah there there's so many different facets to the struggle today uh it hasn't changed much you know honestly we we are you know still at the very basics of of trying to have ethnic studies at the high schools. I mean it's now past it's now a law but it's but it's basically the only requirement is that it be a semester and I try to push for here in Albany to be a year but the politics that work are such it continued today where the recognition of ethnic studies is always a fight it's never going to end it's never ending and uh the important thing is is our being in solidarity and working together when I get together with the TWLF efforts it's so much fun and and not only remembering the struggle but going forward and and what can we do to help and so it's important that we all strive to work together to be really solid about um you know how how to be united because it's so easy for the distractions because of the politics or because the system is to divide and conquer and it has done well and we can see that in terms of the history of ethnic studies and and how things have kind of fallen out and so we know or we should definitely be mindful of you know the politics and and then it's a question of our working together with our professors and others to keep la lucha la lucha sigue and ya basta with all the nonsense but we know it's going to continue be it in New York or be it here in California so it's just work work work work and and you know keep our eyes focused on the prize which is our community and our children and what the world's going to look like for them and and how the library serves to to help our future the library is a place the library is the community so it's a place to keep building all of this good stuff that's going on.